This post summarizes Boris Cherny’s interview on Lenny’s Podcast (March 2026). Boris is the head of Claude Code at Anthropic, and this conversation coincides roughly with the one-year anniversary of Claude Code’s public launch. The interview covers the origin story of Claude Code, how it has transformed software engineering, and what comes next.

The Origin Story of Claude Code

From Prototype to Product

When Boris first joined Anthropic, he spent a month hacking on weird prototypes, most of which never shipped. He then spent a month doing post-training work to understand the research side — his philosophy is that to do good work, you need to understand the layer beneath the layer you work on.

The very first version was called “Claude CLI.” Boris gave the model a bash tool and was shocked when it figured out how to use it to answer the question “what music am I listening to?” without any specific instructions. That moment of emergent tool use was when he knew he was onto something.

Two Likes and a Terminal

When Boris announced Claude CLI internally at Anthropic, it got exactly two likes. Nobody thought a terminal-based coding tool could work — people associated coding tools with IDEs and sophisticated environments. But the terminal was born out of necessity: it was just Boris working alone, and the terminal was the easiest thing to build.

The team later stuck with the terminal form factor deliberately. The model was improving so fast that Boris felt no other form factor could keep up. The terminal’s simplicity meant they could iterate at the speed of model improvement.

The Growth Trajectory

Claude Code was released externally in February 2025 and was not an immediate hit. It took months for people to understand what it was. The real inflection came with Opus 4 in May 2025, and then again in November. The growth has continued to accelerate — daily active users doubled just in the past month.

According to a Semi Analysis report, 4% of all GitHub commits are now authored by Claude Code, and that figure is predicted to reach a fifth of all commits by year’s end. Boris notes this only counts public repositories — the private repo figure is likely much higher.

The Brief Cursor Detour

Boris actually left Anthropic and joined Cursor briefly. He was drawn by the product and the impressive team. But within two weeks, he realized what he really missed was Anthropic’s mission. The safety-first culture, where everyone in the hallway will tell you they are there because of safety, was something he needed to be happy in his work. No matter how exciting the product work, it was not a substitute for that mission-driven purpose.

100% AI-Written Code

Boris now writes zero lines of code by hand. Every day he ships 10-30 pull requests, all generated by Claude Code. He has not manually edited a single line since November 2025.

However, he still reviews the code. He does not think we are at the point where you can be fully hands-off, especially for production software. At Anthropic, Claude also performs automatic code review on 100% of pull requests, with a human review layer on top.

Productivity Gains

Since introducing Claude Code internally, Anthropic roughly quadrupled its engineering team, but productivity per engineer increased 200% in terms of pull requests. Boris contrasts this with his previous experience at Meta, where hundreds of engineers working on code quality for a year might yield a few percentage points of productivity improvement.

The Memory Leak Story

Boris shared a telling anecdote: he was debugging a memory leak the traditional way — taking heap snapshots, using specialized debuggers. A newer engineer on the team simply asked Claude Code to figure it out. Claude took the heap snapshot, wrote a custom analysis tool for itself, found the issue, and submitted a pull request faster than Boris could. The lesson: even experienced users get stuck in old habits and need to keep up with the model’s improving capabilities.

Coding Is Solved — What’s Next?

Boris considers coding “largely solved” for the kind of programming he does. The frontier is now moving beyond coding:

Claude as a Co-Worker

Claude Code is starting to come up with its own ideas. It reads through feedback channels, bug reports, and telemetry, then suggests fixes and even submits pull requests autonomously. Boris points it at a Slack feedback channel and it identifies actionable items and puts up PRs.

Co-Work: Beyond Coding

The co-work product emerged from observing how people were “abusing” Claude Code for non-technical tasks — growing tomato plants, analyzing genomes, recovering wedding photos from corrupted hard drives, analyzing MRIs. This was classic latent demand: people were jumping through hoops to use a terminal for non-coding tasks, signaling that a dedicated product was needed.

Co-work was built in just 10 days, fully implemented using Claude Code. It ships with a virtual machine for safety and runs in the Claude desktop app. Boris uses it daily for project management, paying parking tickets, canceling subscriptions, and responding to emails.

Team Principles

Underfund Everything a Little

Boris advocates deliberately under-resourcing projects. When one engineer is assigned to a project, they are intrinsically motivated to ship fast, and they naturally turn to Claude to automate the tedious parts. This creates a virtuous cycle of AI-assisted productivity.

Speed Above All

The principle is simple: if you can do something today, just do it today. In the early days, speed was Claude Code’s only competitive advantage in a crowded coding tools market. That urgency has remained a core team value.

Give Engineers Unlimited Tokens

Boris strongly advises companies not to restrict AI token usage. At Anthropic, some engineers spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in tokens. His reasoning: at small scale, the cost is low relative to salary. Let people experiment with the most capable models. Only optimize costs once you have found an approach that works and need to scale it.

The Latent Demand Principle

Boris considers latent demand the single most important principle in product development. The idea is to observe how people hack, misuse, or repurpose your product for unintended purposes — that reveals where to take the product next.

Examples

  • Facebook Marketplace: 40% of posts in Facebook Groups were buying and selling. The demand was already there; Marketplace just formalized it.
  • Co-Work: People were using Claude Code in a terminal for non-coding tasks. Co-work gave them a proper interface.
  • Model-side latent demand: A modern extension of the concept is observing what the model is trying to do. For Claude Code, the team inverted the traditional approach: instead of boxing the model into a rigid system, they let the model be the product, giving it minimal tools and letting it decide how to use them.

Tips for Building AI Products

  1. Don’t box the model in. Avoid rigid workflows and orchestrators. Give the model tools and a goal, then let it figure out the approach. Scaffolding might improve performance 10-20%, but those gains get wiped out with the next model.

  2. Remember the Bitter Lesson. Richard Sutton’s insight that the more general model always outperforms the more specific one applies broadly. Bet on the most general model. Don’t fine-tune or use tiny models unless you have a very specific reason.

  3. Build for the model six months from now. Product-market fit may be weak initially, but when the better model arrives, you will hit the ground running. Claude Code was not very useful with Sonnet 3.5, but it was built for what came after.

Tips for Using Claude Code

  1. Use the most capable model. Currently Opus 4.6 with maximum effort enabled. Less capable models often require more tokens to complete the same task, making them not actually cheaper.

  2. Start with Plan Mode. Boris begins roughly 80% of tasks in Plan Mode (Shift+Tab twice in terminal). It simply tells the model not to write code yet. Go back and forth until the plan looks good, then let it execute. With Opus 4.6, it will typically one-shot the implementation.

  3. Explore different interfaces. Claude Code is not just a terminal. It is available as iOS and Android apps, the desktop app, web, Slack integration, and IDE extensions. Boris personally splits his coding roughly into thirds: terminal, desktop app, and iOS app.

The Printing Press Analogy

Boris draws a parallel between AI and the printing press. Before Gutenberg, literacy was below 1% in Europe — scribes did all the reading and writing. In the 50 years after the press was invented, more material was printed than in the preceding thousand years. Literacy eventually rose to 70% globally over the next 200 years.

He found a historical interview with a scribe from the 1400s who was actually excited about the printing press — the scribe disliked copying between books but loved the art and bookbinding. Boris sees a parallel in his own experience: coding had always been the tedious detail work. The fun part — talking to users, thinking about systems, collaborating — is what he now gets to do more of.

The Future of Roles

Boris predicts that the boundaries between engineering, product management, and design will blur significantly. On the Claude Code team, everyone codes — the PM, the engineering manager, the designer, the finance person, the data scientist. He believes that by the end of the year, the title “software engineer” will start disappearing, replaced by something like “builder.”

The people who will be rewarded most are not just AI-native tool users, but curious generalists who cross multiple disciplines — engineers with design sense, product thinking, business acumen, or user empathy.

Safety at Anthropic

Boris described three layers of AI safety:

  1. Alignment and Mechanistic Interpretability: At the neuron level, understanding what is happening inside the model. Anthropic can now monitor specific neurons (e.g., those related to deception) and understand when they activate. This work, led by Chris Olah, has revealed that model neurons behave surprisingly similarly to biological neurons.

  2. Evals: Laboratory-style testing where the model is placed in synthetic situations to evaluate whether it behaves safely and as intended.

  3. Real-world observation: Seeing how the model behaves in production. Claude Code was used internally at Anthropic for 4-5 months before public release specifically to study its safety as an agent. Anthropic open-sourced a sandbox for running agents safely, designed to work with any agent, not just Claude Code — part of what they call the “race to the top.”

Lightning Round

  • Books: Functional Programming in Scala (the best technical book he has ever read), Accelerando by Charles Stross (captures the pace of the current moment), The Wandering Earth by Liu Cixin (Chinese sci-fi with a perspective different from Western sci-fi)
  • Favorite product: Co-work — it pays traffic fines, cancels subscriptions, and manages his email
  • Favorite podcast: Acquired (recommends starting with the Nintendo episode)
  • Life motto: “Use common sense.” Most failures come from people following processes without thinking from first principles.
  • Post-AGI plan: Making miso. Boris lived in rural Japan before joining Anthropic, where he learned to make miso and trade pickles with neighbors. Miso teaches you to think on long time scales — white miso takes at least three months, red miso takes 2-4 years.

Key Takeaways

  1. Coding is largely solved — The frontier has moved to what comes after: ideation, code review, and non-technical tasks
  2. Latent demand is the most important product principle — Watch how people misuse your product to find what to build next
  3. Build for the model six months out — Short-term product-market fit matters less than being ready when capabilities arrive
  4. Don’t box the model in — Give it tools and goals, not rigid workflows
  5. Underfund and move fast — Constraints force creative use of AI, and speed is the primary competitive advantage
  6. Be a generalist — The future belongs to people who cross disciplinary boundaries
  7. Safety is the mission — Everything at Anthropic, including Claude Code, serves the goal of building AI safely

本文总结了 Boris Cherny 在 Lenny’s Podcast(2026年3月)上的访谈。Boris 是 Anthropic Claude Code 的负责人,这次对话恰逢 Claude Code 公开发布一周年。

Claude Code 的起源

Boris 加入 Anthropic 后,先花了一个月做各种原型实验,然后又花一个月研究后训练(post-training)以理解模型底层。他的理念是:要做好工作,必须理解你所在层级之下的那一层。

最初的版本叫 “Claude CLI”。当他给模型一个 bash 工具时,模型自己想出了如何用它来回答”我在听什么音乐?“这个问题,完全没有任何明确指令。这种涌现式的工具使用能力让他意识到自己发现了重要的东西。

Boris 在 Anthropic 内部宣布这个项目时,只获得了两个赞。没人认为终端工具能用于编程。但终端的选择源于实际条件——当时只有他一个人开发,终端是最容易构建的形式。后来团队有意保持终端形态,因为模型进步太快,没有其他形式能跟上。

Claude Code 在 2025 年 2 月外部发布,最初并非爆款。真正的拐点出现在 2025 年 5 月 Opus 4 发布时,之后在 11 月再次加速。根据 Semi Analysis 的报告,4% 的 GitHub 公开提交现在由 Claude Code 生成。

短暂的 Cursor 经历

Boris 曾短暂离开 Anthropic 加入 Cursor,但两周后就回来了。他意识到自己真正需要的是 Anthropic 的使命感——安全优先的文化是他工作幸福感的核心来源。

100% AI 编写代码

Boris 自 2025 年 11 月以来没有手动编辑过一行代码。每天他提交 10-30 个 PR,全部由 Claude Code 生成。不过他仍然会审查代码。在 Anthropic,Claude 对 100% 的 PR 进行自动代码审查,之后还有人工审查层。

自引入 Claude Code 以来,Anthropic 工程团队规模约增加了 4 倍,但每位工程师的生产力(以 PR 衡量)提高了 200%。

内存泄漏的故事

Boris 分享了一个有启发性的故事:他用传统方式调试内存泄漏,而团队中一位新工程师直接让 Claude Code 处理。Claude 自己拍了堆快照、写了分析工具、找到问题并提交了 PR,比 Boris 还快。教训是:即使是资深用户也容易困在旧习惯中。

编程已被解决——下一步是什么?

Boris 认为对于他所做的那种编程,这已经是一个”解决了的问题”。前沿已经转向:

Claude 作为同事

Claude Code 开始自主提出想法——阅读反馈渠道、bug 报告和遥测数据,然后建议修复方案甚至自动提交 PR。

Co-Work:超越编程

Co-work 产品源于观察到人们”滥用” Claude Code 做非技术任务——种番茄、分析基因组、从损坏硬盘恢复照片、分析 MRI。这是经典的潜在需求(latent demand)。Co-work 用 10 天时间构建完成,完全使用 Claude Code 实现。

团队原则

适度欠配资源

故意给项目少配一些资源。当一个工程师负责一个项目时,他们会自然地利用 Claude 来自动化繁琐工作。

速度至上

能今天做的事就今天做。在早期,速度是 Claude Code 在拥挤的编程工具市场中唯一的竞争优势。

给工程师无限 Token

Boris 强烈建议公司不要限制 AI token 使用。在 Anthropic,有些工程师每月花费数十万美元的 token。他的逻辑是:小规模实验成本远低于薪资。等发现有效方案需要扩展时再优化成本。

潜在需求原则

Boris 认为潜在需求是产品开发中最重要的原则。观察人们如何以非预期方式使用你的产品,就能发现产品的下一个方向。

现代版本的延伸:不仅观察用户想做什么,还要观察模型想做什么。Claude Code 的设计理念是让模型成为产品本身,给它最少的工具,让它自己决定如何使用。

构建 AI 产品的建议

  1. 不要限制模型 — 避免严格的工作流和编排器,给模型工具和目标,让它自己决定方法
  2. 记住苦涩的教训(Bitter Lesson) — 更通用的模型总是会超越更特定的模型
  3. 为六个月后的模型而构建 — 初期产品市场契合度可能不佳,但当更强模型到来时你就能领先

使用 Claude Code 的技巧

  1. 使用最强模型 — 目前是 Opus 4.6,开启最大努力模式。较弱模型通常需要更多 token,实际上并不更便宜
  2. 从计划模式开始 — 约 80% 的任务从计划模式开始(终端中按两次 Shift+Tab),反复讨论直到计划满意再执行
  3. 探索不同界面 — Claude Code 不仅是终端,还有 iOS/Android 应用、桌面应用、网页版、Slack 集成和 IDE 扩展

印刷术类比

Boris 将 AI 比作印刷术。在古登堡之前,欧洲识字率低于 1%。印刷术发明后 50 年内产生的印刷材料超过了之前千年的总和。之后 200 年内识字率上升到全球 70%。

他找到一份 1400 年代抄写员的采访记录,那位抄写员对印刷术感到兴奋——他讨厌抄书,喜欢书中的艺术和装订。Boris 觉得自己的感受类似:编程的繁琐细节终于可以交给 AI,他可以专注于更有价值的工作——与用户交流、思考系统设计、规划未来。

角色的未来

Boris 预测工程、产品管理和设计之间的界限将显著模糊。在 Claude Code 团队,所有人都写代码——PM、工程经理、设计师、财务、数据科学家。到年底,“软件工程师”的头衔可能会开始消失,被”builder”之类的称呼取代。

未来最受重视的人将是跨越多学科的好奇通才——兼具设计感、产品思维、商业嗅觉或用户同理心的工程师。

Anthropic 的安全工作

Boris 描述了 AI 安全的三个层次:

  1. 对齐和机械可解释性 — 在神经元层面理解模型内部发生了什么。Anthropic 现在可以监控特定神经元(如与欺骗相关的)
  2. 评估(Evals) — 将模型放入合成场景中测试其行为是否安全
  3. 真实世界观察 — Claude Code 在公开发布前在 Anthropic 内部使用了 4-5 个月来研究安全性

快问快答

  • 推荐书籍:《Scala 函数式编程》(他读过的最好的技术书)、Charles Stross 的《Accelerando》、刘慈欣的《流浪地球》
  • 最爱产品:Co-work — 帮他缴罚单、取消订阅、管理邮件
  • 最爱播客:Acquired(推荐从任天堂那集开始听)
  • 人生格言:“运用常识。” 大多数失败源于人们不加思考地遵循流程
  • AGI 之后的计划:做味噌。Boris 加入 Anthropic 前住在日本乡村,学会了做味噌。味噌教人用长时间尺度思考——白味噌至少需要三个月,红味噌需要 2-4 年

核心要点

  1. 编程基本已被解决 — 前沿已转向构思创意、代码审查和非技术任务
  2. 潜在需求是最重要的产品原则 — 观察用户如何”滥用”你的产品来发现下一步方向
  3. 为六个月后的模型而构建 — 当更强模型到来时你就能占据先机
  4. 不要限制模型 — 给它工具和目标,而非僵化的工作流
  5. 适度欠配、快速行动 — 约束迫使人创造性地使用 AI,速度是首要竞争优势
  6. 做通才 — 未来属于跨越学科边界的人
  7. 安全是使命 — Anthropic 的一切,包括 Claude Code,都服务于安全构建 AI 的目标